CREATION OF MINERALS is a poorly written blog about (mostly) 90's hardcore records. It is one person's effort to ensure that quality underground music from yesteryear continues to be heard.
Saturday, August 1, 2015
Chokehold Reunion - Philadelphia, Pa
Here's some less-than-spectacular footage I recorded of the July 24th, 2015 Chokehold reunion show that took place at the Voltage Lounge in Philadelphia. Also on the bill that night was Florida's Morning Again and Baltimore's Noisem (who were both actually really good) as well as Pittsburgh's Eternal Sleep and Erie's Human Animal (who were both pretty awful). I genuinely felt bad for Morning Again to be honest, because they had to follow Noisem, who seriously ripped. I wasn't sure what kind of reaction they (Morning Again, that is) were going to get because I know they've been playing shows again for awhile now, and I didn't have a gauge on if people were excited or not. Thankfully, they pulled it off and kids were into it, moshing like complete fucking retards and going out of their way to kick other folks in the face / back of the head. Glad to see that the scene today is populated by mongoloid retards, just as I'm sure it was two decades ago, but I'm now (conveniently, I'm guessing) forgetting about. Anyways, I'm not trying to use this post to trashtalk those who wanna "dance", just those idiots whose goal is to act like complete douche bags while blatantly showing zero regard for other people in the audience.
Chokehold played pretty damn well for not having performed together since early 1996. Especially noteworthy was the execution of the songs by drummer Matt Beckman, who, let's be honest, played pretty sloppily on a few of the songs that appeared on various XchokeholdX releases. To quote my buddy Sam, "it looks like he practiced a bunch for these shows, or maybe he just got better". I was quite confident that I was just going to get all bummed out watching Chris Logan sing songs about veganism or straight edge when he clearly is neither of those things anymore (I ain't judging, I broke my edge in 2000, yo) but in actuality, didn't bother me at all during their set, nor did I really even think about it. I wished they played some of the jams from the Jawk 7" because it's a great ep, but hey.
Originally, I wasn't even planning to attend this show cause I'm old
and bitter, but thankfully my pal Sean convinced me to stop being such a
fucking boner and go. In the end I'm glad that I did.
Good times.
Wait.... so he is NOT edge or vegetarian? Ok it happens... But did he sing songs about it? I just don't get how 40+ year old dudes can sing songs they wrote 20+ years ago that don't apply to them anymore. I mean, ya i can see it, but don't they feel a teensy bit silly or stunted? Sorrry not trying to hate on anybody... BUT remember the Burning Joint reunion and how much crap they got, and that was only 3 years after they broke up. That said those Chokehold dudes were nice guys if memory serves..... but???
"I just don't get how 40+ year old dudes can sing songs they wrote 20+ years ago that don't apply to them anymore." - my feelings exactly. I mean, nobody can blame someone for changing how they feel about stuff, because we're all humans, right? People change, and I'm 100% okay with that. I guess I just think it's shitty when folks are on stage singing songs about...well, you get it. It is what it is and I guess in reality it's probably not that big of a deal, you know? There's more important stuff I could probably complain about, haha. Just as long as they're still nice folks, I can give 'em a pass. Thanks for the comment(s) and thanks for reading!
Hey Chris Logan! Chiming in here, not as polite as the first dude..
First, this is pretty HUGE drag... Seems like tolerant mutual discourse, or simply witty come backs, is not your band's strong suit... At all... http://www.absolutepunk.net/showthread.php?t=3729204
Ok now that that is out of the way..
"Chokehold were a Canadian vegan straight edge hardcore/punk band" Um you know you can change your own wiki page right? But maybe kinda rad you didn't.. but looks like the world saw you dudes as a SXE and vegan band.
It is your right to re-do the band.. if a buncha dudes wanna get together and do a Civil War re-enactment in a park, or play paintball in the woods like they are in Iraq, that is cool & all too... Sorry just yankin your chain.....
Just Like Judge, Floorpunch, Chain, Strife and every other definitively at one time SXE bands playing now as 40+ year old dudes who are not edge anymore, the main question is WHY NOT JUST DO (or focus on if you already are doing other stuff) ON A NEW BAND? Ya, some dues will check it out Chokehold cuz of the nostalgia factor, and ya some younger kids might go to see a museum piece in real life. BUT, just start new bands! I'm sure they will be good if you want them to be... I mean, yah i do get that kids and older people just dont support the newer bands of guys who did bands a long time ago.. That sux.. but still, just focus on new bands please! I guess this is the pitfall of defining your band when u are young and think u will never change.. But you gotta deal with it... Oh and for the record, I am 42, and dont drink/drug/smoke etc since 1992 (before that yikes!) and been vegan for 26 years. Just adding this so I don't get written of as some young idealistic kid, who in all honesty should be getting the spotlight with his new band.. Ha! Juss kiddin! Sort of...
Actually after re-listening to that recording... I was too nice..
Please just go away from HC/Punk and never return, "bro" (a bro, cause that is what the bandmember speaking in the vid sounds like.) I know you have nothing else going for you, but maybe u guys can take up model trains?
"Nobody questions me! I am in a marginally relevant band from the mid 90's!" Guess what! you said a very loaded and ignorant statement. Expect somebody to call it out. That is what happens in Punk. Handle it like an adult. If this incident happened in 1995 you woulda been out of business. Beiben woulda been sooo bummed. Even tho that guy has his own skeletons for sure.
Also, you slept on my couch. Twice. I did a show for you. You guys were nice.. The voice in the recording sounds like a totally different person that what i remember... Sad to hear...
Ahhhh ok. No idea what your ranting about. And congrats how awesome you are and turned out to be. Don't worry we are headed back into oblivion after the weekend and you can rest easy once again.
Also we all have other bands (Left For Dead, Haymaker, Longest War, Pick Your Side etc etc), we just wanted to come back to make you angry cuz we are "bros" now. Looks like it worked. Better get that couch cleaned.
HA! Okaaay dude.. Looks like your Google Alerts are working! Always gotta keep up with seeing if anybody actually remembers you!
The link above about your guitarist is the source of my "rant". Didn't really care that much about the non-edge bullshit... just found it sorta embarrassing for you... BUT punching a person (esp when there is enough violence against trans people in the world) just because they call you out on the most loaded subject EVER these days, and for sounding like an uninformed bigot, is PLENTY to "RANT" about. From what i knew about you guys way back, woulda expected you to act slightly above Floorpunch in the areas of race, homophobia and punching people because they make you feel like a dumdum for saying stupid shit. BUT ohhhh well..
You could have just been humble and been like "um yeah that got of hand and we regret it, But nah, you just gonna try to clown anybody who calls you out, like nothing happened. OWN up to the fact that that that was some SERIOUS bullshit.
Not angry cuz you came back, I have lived off music and art the past 20 years, but I have zero to do with hardcore since like 1995 (other then still listening to it), so you can have it.. Just telling you that your actions MAJORLY suck. Admit it, that shit was WACK. Also fair to mention that some 40-somethings embarrassingly playing songs that they wrote 20+ years ago and that were made fun of at the time by most other bands at the time... simply because a few more people remember your early crap (never heard of the other bands you list, but ya that is prob cuz i got out of hardcore when most non-stunted adults did)
Well yup.. not much more one can to add to that...
actually I was led here from a post on facebook. nothing to do with Google alerts. If you want to e mail me and discuss your accusations and assumptions about me and any member of the band, feel free. Rather than you spouting off about shit you think you have all figured out online. You don't know anything about me or what I am or how I live my life or my diet, you have just assumed. I know it's really hard to believe but it's not as cut and dry as you make it. paulyspasta@gmail.com . I apologize to the blog owner for the drama, my original post was sincere and your blog is rad. <3
Chris, you do have a point, and I am sorry to the owner of this blog, that I went off so hard, on a blog of all places. I do think that because the incident happened in a public place, and it was recorded, that my feelings were valid to stay in public. I think private emails are like sweeping something very serious under the rug. Keeping it all on the DL just doesn't happen when public things like this make news. Being recorded is sorta ironic, being that the whole thing started out of the Black Lives Matter comment. Maybe you feel you have a explanation about what went down and you are totally entitled to speak your side, but you are majorly avoiding that for some reason.
I know I came across super pissed...My reason for intense intense anger is simply from what I heard out of the band's mouth, which was shocking to say the least. And then the aftermath of reports of the incident. There is seriously no place for that kinda violence, in society in general, let alone the HC/Punk world. It just REALLY made me mad that it came from a band I thought woulda been way above it. I don't feel the need to talk about that in private with you, as the recording speaks for itself. Even if the punch never happened, the recording is a huge bummer in my and a lot of other people's eyes. I know that you personally didn't say/do the bullshit, but if I was in your position, I would been horrified, then all over you guitarist's ass, then walked off stage and never looked back.
I honestly don't really care THAT much about the sxe thing that so many reunion bands do these days. I just find it really odd for my above reasons.. But i suppose i used it as fuel for the anger about the other bullshit.
But ya, this shit is really tough to swallow in 2015. I have so little to do with HC, it is a shame that this is what brought me here, while perusing some cool articles about bands i used to listen to.
One thing to add, I came out of the late 80's NYHC world, and this whole scenario woulda seemed INSANE if it happened even then. Violence obviously DID happen, but never in my memory between a male band member and a woman or transwoman, and esp over somebody calling them out from the crowd. I am thinking maybe the Mentors or GG got away with that? But Chokehold??? The amount of time between the initial comment and the punch was soooo quick!! Dude needs serious anger management skills. Also i just read your band and label's totally dismissive responses. LAME. Learning to say you are sorry and that you made a horrible mistake would actually be commendable. But your defensive egos are totally in the way of that. Stating that you guys are totally against homophobia and violence and racism, and yet, losing your cool in 30 seconds, and punching somebody over a criticism, is BANANAS!
It seems you guys are at a crossroads, did you get enough damage that you are finished? Or in 2015, is the HC scene just into entertainment, and you can cash in a bit more?
One thing to add, I came out of the late 80's NYHC world, and this whole scenario woulda seemed INSANE if it happened even then. Violence obviously DID happen, but never in my memory between a male band member and a woman or transwoman, and esp over somebody calling them out from the crowd. I am thinking maybe the Mentors or GG got away with that? But Chokehold??? The amount of time between the initial comment and the punch was soooo quick!! Dude needs serious anger management skills. Also i just read your band and label's totally dismissive responses. LAME. Learning to say you are sorry and that you made a horrible mistake would actually be commendable. But your defensive egos are totally in the way of that. Stating that you guys are totally against homophobia and violence and racism, and yet, losing your cool in 30 seconds, and punching somebody over a criticism, is BANANAS!
It seems you guys are at a crossroads, did you get enough damage that you are finished? Or in 2015, is the HC scene just into entertainment, and you can cash in a bit more?
to the blog owner, sorry to bring this up, the "Mongoloid retard" comment in your post is sorta fucked.. I know that has become vernacular over the years to describe people who are knuckleheads. But as somebody who has a family member with Downs Syndrome, that term really gets under my skin.
I get where you are coming from, but you are a little late to the party and the fallout from this whole thing. Jeff apologized for his actions and even had a sit down in Arizona with a whole table full of activists and they all hashed things out. You are taking a recording and condemning. You have no insight. this person was being violent all night and yelling at all the bands and calling them names and punching people in the pit the entire evening. Jeff did have a point and was going to make a point. This person was rude and shitty all night and paid for it. You can have your opinion on violence all you want, but the punch happened. No one knew anything about the person being a male that identified as a female. NOT ONE PERSON. so take that out of the equation. He punched the person. should he have? in my opinion no. but he did. There has been many arguments apologies etc. so have your opinion and that's all good. I am who I am and the songs I screamed during this reunion are songs I 10000% still believe in and support in my life to this day. I won't be commenting any further because I don't need to defend this any longer. I love hardcore and have for 25 years and still do. It's my life, I live and breathe it. so fuck you. I'm not trying to sweep anything under the rug or keep it private, I have been all over the place disucssiing this for over 9 weeks. But since you checked out of the "scene" you would have no idea. You have walked in and declared judgement. and who can blame you
and we are done. we were onlly here for a couple of shows. Don't worry we didn't get rich and we are not RE-DOing the band. Just an excuse to hang out with friends once again. I can only imagine all those evil thoughts going through your head of how rich we were getting off playing shitty 90's hardcore. The money to be made .. oh my. After this weekend we are gone again. so rest easy my friend. Your universe will be at peace once more.
You came out of the late 1980s NYHC scene and that would have seemed crazy? Well Im from the same place and time. I don't know what fucking shows you were hanging out at haha. Maybe you were watching pop punk shows and your memory is a little off or you're just some full of shit loser that has nothing better to do then hangout run your mouth all over the internet from your mom's basement. Also if your gonna talk all kinds of shit and make accusations about people thart you dont even really know at least put your fucking name to it. All the people and bands I can think of coming out of NYHC from that time period would have no problem saying what they have to say and backing it up with their identity. Get a life seriously
Look dude, we are both commenting here, so don't pull the Mom's Basement card on me, you're just as guilty. We are on a blog together!...
I went to CBs matinees, then to ABC.. from 88-onward and duh, i totally admitted above it was plenty violent at times, and PLENTY of homophobic words thrown around... But i meant that even in that scene, can you tell me a band that punched out a woman, or man for that matter for (verbally) challenging them? Not saying that somewhere in NYC that it NEVER happened, just saying even in that world, that that person woulda gotten shit about it from a fair amount of people. SO my point was how can a band that seriously came across as SUPER lefty pull this sorta shit move in 2015? In Your Face got so much shit and was BANNED by Mike BS because of a very poor taste "joke" song (Faggot Stomp). And they APOLOGIZED profusely for it their whole career. Teens say and do dumb and fucked up shit. They hopefully grow up and own it. This is 2015. Everybody involved is in their 40s. Totally Absurd.
First, thanks for actually referencing what i am pissed about. BUT... Oh my god... I was just saying, that despite all you have been thru since your guitarist FUCKED UP hard, having to explain away your bros's actions, and how much that person sucked and deserved it, you just need to STOP being so snarky and offended that me and a lotta other people are MAJORLY WTF about this whole thing... I don't care if the person was annoying or drunk or acting out, did he hit your guitarist? The escalation was so fucking fast... So Dumb. And it's not a point to make of me being not in the "the scene" anymore. This is planet Earth, but ya, I am more bummed than normal, as somebody who has hung out with you and worked with your band. That shit majorly sucked and I was shocked to hear about it. Everybody I talked to about it since learning about it was shocked and bummed as well. People that you knew, and that you played with. One person I know you played with plenty, had a great point, "This actually blows the One Life Crew thing away" SO just say "YES, my guitarist is FUCKED UP." There is no other way around it. Don't tell me "Fuck You" and take shots at me for understandably being blown away by and pissed about this! If you heard the same thing about another band, I am sure you'd be like "WHAT??? That is fucked!!" Enough self preservation. I woulda given you a ton of kudos if you just admitted it was fucked, and that you are distancing yourself from the person. But oh well. I know you prob won't respond, but in all due respect, PLEASE try to understand how this was very upsetting for people who supported your band to hear about. And then to have be soooo uncomfortably evasive and snarky and mean towards people going WTF. It's pretty expected backlash wouldn't you say?
& of course I know you didn't make THAT much money.... Just helps grease that faded ego.
I just find it extremely amusing that everyone on this thread running their mouth, throwing around insults, labeling people, putting words in their mouths or just straight up talking shit are all posting anonymously but that's today world for you. If you don't have to look someone in the eyes or worry about crossing paths it's easy to be a complete cock. What I also find hilarious is the amount of pronouns being thrown around. If you want to have a serious discussion and engage someone then come out of hiding and stop being a chicken shit like pretty much everyone else on this thread. There's 7 different options to choose from. You skipped all the way down to the last one and clicked anonymous.
P.s.
Get of your fucking high horse!
Not one single person in Chokehold is a racist, a sexist, prejudice or homophobic or transphobic etc. Does someone have an anger problem and made a really, really bad judgement call in my heat of the moment I'd say definitely YES. I think that's obvious. People seem to forget we are all human and humans make mistakes but according to you in today's world everyone's perfect. It's 1 and done. 1 strike youré out. No chance for redemption, no chance to change your ways, no apology is good enough, no chance to fix your fuck ups. Just a whole bunch of shitheads ready to pounce and destroy someone because they have nothing better to do. I think we can all agree chokehold and their members dont have a history of hitting women in the crowd or anyone else in the crowd for that matter. This isn't some reoccurring thing. There's no pattern of behavior here. So fucking get off of it already.
Just incase you're wondering... I happen to know all of this because they slept on my couch in the early 9O's. We've hungout a couple times. I also set up some shows and I have a friend of a friend of a friend of another friend that thinks so too.
I just find it extremely amusing that everyone on this thread running their mouth, throwing around insults, labeling people, putting words in their mouths or just straight up talking shit are all posting anonymously but that's today world for you. If you don't have to look someone in the eyes or worry about crossing paths it's easy to be a complete cock. What I also find hilarious is the amount of pronouns being thrown around. If you want to have a serious discussion and engage someone then come out of hiding and stop being a chicken shit like pretty much everyone else on this thread. There's 7 different options to choose from. You skipped all the way down to the last one and clicked anonymous.
P.s.
Get of your fucking high horse!
Not one single person in Chokehold is a racist, a sexist, prejudice or homophobic or transphobic etc. Does someone have an anger problem and made a really, really bad judgement call in my heat of the moment I'd say definitely YES. I think that's obvious. People seem to forget we are all human and humans make mistakes but according to you in today's world everyone's perfect. It's 1 and done. 1 strike youré out. No chance for redemption, no chance to change your ways, no apology is good enough, no chance to fix your fuck ups. Just a whole bunch of shitheads ready to pounce and destroy someone because they have nothing better to do. I think we can all agree chokehold and their members dont have a history of hitting women in the crowd or anyone else in the crowd for that matter. This isn't some reoccurring thing. There's no pattern of behavior here. So fucking get off of it already.
Just incase you're wondering... I happen to know all of this because they slept on my couch in the early 9O's. We've hungout a couple times. I also set up some shows and I have a friend of a friend of a friend of another friend that thinks so too.
Timothy, Firstly to address the above issue with my anon choice, I simply don't care to be a real person, because it just doesn't matter that much who I am. I am just somebody who at one point really thought this band was on the right track. And who is currently super bummed at this recent mega-ugly development. I am NOT a troll and hating on them or mud slinging, just voicing my MAJOR disappointment and disgust. I suppose that is what makes me a coward to you... But I am just not into putting my name on here, and being googled and then have everybody go, "oooooh shit that dude from "that band" is TOTALLY beefing with Chokehold!". It happened to me once before and Pitchfork, then other media outlets jumped all over it. So ya, I am wary of that. Consider me an anon HC kid who is simply VERY bummed.
I generally really do believe you and Chris, that these guys try to mean well, and are against all those things. It's hard to not be against those things if you are sane person. BUT sometimes people say rash stuff that comes across backwards thinking to others, ie: All Lives Matter. It's sorta like, OK, no shit, all lives matter.. but It is widely believed to be very distracting from the actual issue of Black Lives being wasted by cops. THAT is the issue. It is obviously a huge tragedy that those three white people got killed by cops. Nobody is disputing that... BUT by tacking on "well white people have it ruff too", it just seems very insensitive to a lotta black folks.
But seriously, I am all for forgiveness, but unfortunately Chris came on here in super defensive self-preservation mode and couldn't just admit that the situation was a huge and problematic one. I even said I liked these guys (as people) back in the day and that it just didn't sound like the guys i remember. It was just VERY surprising news to me, and VERY upsetting. Not going out of my way to fling mud, because the guitarist clearly dumped that bucket of shit on the bands legacy. I am just voicing my disgust, disappointment and sadness about this. Why is that hard to understand? If some random white power dude showed up a the show and did the same thing, everybody woulda killed him. But since the Guitarist is one of "us" then "how dare anybody be surprised and upset about his actions!". Punk is always going to be about standing up for things we believe in and voicing opinions. And being beat down for it is something straight out of the OLC playbook.
But, we are agreeing on the one basic issue I am upset at, that the dude DEFINITELY has crazy anger issues and an extremely short fuse, and prob should not have access to a mic (just kidding, sorta?). I doubt that he is a straight up racist person, maybe kinda Libertarian? Ha I dunno the guy... A lot of left-ish white people HATE being considered racist (he admitted he certainly did in an interview), BUT sometimes we don't understand all the issues that blacks and minorities feel, but then we have strong opinions about them, and want to seem down and show solidarity with them, by saying, "you know, us whites have suffered too". I am thinking that was what the dude was getting at.. But there is an unconscious patronizing racism that the left can fall prey too.. he should left the Black Lives Matter out, and just said this song is about police and how they are fucked, yadda yadda and not brought race into it. I have a dark-skinned GF and we have been together and seen that difference first hand in how we are treated. Like I get all smiles, then if she is without me, it's cold, or suspiciousness.. then when we are together, I get this vibe from people that im a race traitor... It really is eye-opening.
And maaaybe that other person who got slugged WAS out of hand at the show? I dunno.. It's just that the recording doesn't sound that way, just sounds to me like a sassy punk kid. Which is what punk is known for. Like she says "OK" like she is down, and guitarist goes "OK WHAT??" That seemed to be an unneeded escalation.Not a reason to fight. If the kid "had it coming to her" then the audience should have intervened to get her to chill and knock it off.. As NON-VIOLENTLY as possible. It's ironic as i said above because the recording really comes across like a cop wearing a body camera. Like well we can hear the whole thing play out, and it doesn't look good. Dude went all Axl Rose.
I am sorry if it seems like im on a high horse. Not trying to be... I am not in a HC band, but one time during a festival in Europe, a drunk dude got on stage with a lit cigarette and grabbed my female bandmate, and got in her face to "dance" and I reached out and jabbed him hard in the spine with my drumstick which snapped him out of his drunken haze, just as the security grabbed the dude. I was MAD. This dude had his hands on my bandmate's hips and ass. NOT COOL. But I lost my cool. I know that can happen when you are in the moment on stage and somebody gets out of line. But if this person at the chokehold show was gonna beat on the guitarist, then, assuming she was bigger or the guitarist was scared for his safety... I could say maybe i understand defending himself. But do to the overwhelmingly unsafe-to-transpeople world we live in, it really left an ugly taste in my mouth... and I was waaaay more angry, than if it was another male (which still woulda be a bummer). And i know that it was said that maybe he didn't see her as a woman. But that doesnt matter. Violence is a last resort. I remember Burn playing Airport Music Hall in Allentown and WP skins straight up saying to Chaka " You better get on the next banana boat back to Africa you N#&%R. And Gavin, and Chaka just playing thru it. Ya they were outnumbered, I at the time I was like, whoa, even Gavin is scared...but I asked him about it later and he just said they just knew if shit went down the cool kids woulda jumped in and maybe they woulda won, or maybe they all woulda lost, Pottstown style. But they just thought, play through it. finish the set. Don't throw the first punch. Be better than them. That meant a ton to me.
I don't wanna fight with all of Chokehold's fans. I just wanted to get my feelings of disappointment and sadness out there. I wanted Chris to understand that instead of defending his guitarist, that he could have been much more humble and understanding of peoples disappointment and anger, considering the situation's severity.
And to Chris, I think it's rad your guitarist was able to sit with people in AZ and talk it out. maybe it was damage control... but I hope everybody grew from that experience. But it's just hard to forget and brush aside violence of this sort, especially from a band and scene that seemed so against all that... I know i came into this late, and dredged up the bad vibes your band is dealing with... But like I said, I was really bummed and just expressing that. I think that is more than fair.
I wish everybody the best in the future. I would really hope that you guys can see where my disappointment comes from, and not just come back try to make fun of me like I am a weird basement dwelling blog troll. I was just moved to get this off my chest. It really hit home.
I came back like a crack head. anonymous person, you are late to the party and I have said sorry just about every single place that it can be said. I apologized for the violence and I apologized for the place it happened in, Jeff gave a huge speech in Arizona. I get why your mad and upset. I really do. You just stoked the fires again and I got pissed. Especially after spending 9 weeks talking about this. It was fucked up. No argument. All these "friends" that are let down by me or whatever, I have not heard from any of them. This is why I gave you my e mail address. I'm not looking to publicize any beef, but if you know me and we are friends, I would hope you would contact me and tell me your concerns and I could explain myself. That is why I am posting as me and giving you my e mail. I'm not into drama, I'm 43 and if someone has a problem they should come to me and discuss it. Honestly you can e mail me because I just don't have the patience for this blog bullshit. Love to everyone. I'm going to Baltimore to embarrass myself on stage doing what I love. Peace.
Chris, thanks for FINALLY getting where I was coming from. Getting pissed is understandable, but that attitude is sorta the root of it all I'd say...I woulda dropped it if i got ur most recent comment FIRST. I know I would HATE to be in your shoes, with something you really care about, and worked for, taking a shitty turn and getting so much shit lately. Honestly I woulda walked away in disgust, that's me tho... I know thats easier said than done tho because he is an old friend and you wanna try to dig ur band out of it... .I know that it sux being the vocalist and being the defacto voice of the band. It sux that bands are often guilty by association of one member's actions. But I unfortunately think this shit is gonna haunt the legacy of your band, and really all you can do and say is be humble about it when it comes up and understanding that people are gonna be seriously WTF.
The few people i mentioned are all scene/band people from the past, and not people that probably kept up with you. So that's why you maybe haven't heard from them. Or maybe they just don't know what to say?
Wait.... so he is NOT edge or vegetarian? Ok it happens... But did he sing songs about it? I just don't get how 40+ year old dudes can sing songs they wrote 20+ years ago that don't apply to them anymore. I mean, ya i can see it, but don't they feel a teensy bit silly or stunted? Sorrry not trying to hate on anybody... BUT remember the Burning Joint reunion and how much crap they got, and that was only 3 years after they broke up. That said those Chokehold dudes were nice guys if memory serves..... but???
ReplyDelete"I just don't get how 40+ year old dudes can sing songs they wrote 20+ years ago that don't apply to them anymore." - my feelings exactly. I mean, nobody can blame someone for changing how they feel about stuff, because we're all humans, right? People change, and I'm 100% okay with that. I guess I just think it's shitty when folks are on stage singing songs about...well, you get it. It is what it is and I guess in reality it's probably not that big of a deal, you know? There's more important stuff I could probably complain about, haha. Just as long as they're still nice folks, I can give 'em a pass. Thanks for the comment(s) and thanks for reading!
DeleteYou won't hear any sxe songs in our set list. It was a conscious decision and a respectful one. Stoked you like the show though. :)
ReplyDeleteHey Chris Logan! Chiming in here, not as polite as the first dude..
ReplyDeleteFirst, this is pretty HUGE drag... Seems like tolerant mutual discourse, or simply witty come backs, is not your band's strong suit... At all...
http://www.absolutepunk.net/showthread.php?t=3729204
Ok now that that is out of the way..
"Chokehold were a Canadian vegan straight edge hardcore/punk band"
Um you know you can change your own wiki page right? But maybe kinda rad you didn't.. but looks like the world saw you dudes as a SXE and vegan band.
It is your right to re-do the band.. if a buncha dudes wanna get together and do a Civil War re-enactment in a park, or play paintball in the woods like they are in Iraq, that is cool & all too... Sorry just yankin your chain.....
Just Like Judge, Floorpunch, Chain, Strife and every other definitively at one time SXE bands playing now as 40+ year old dudes who are not edge anymore, the main question is WHY NOT JUST DO (or focus on if you already are doing other stuff) ON A NEW BAND? Ya, some dues will check it out Chokehold cuz of the nostalgia factor, and ya some younger kids might go to see a museum piece in real life. BUT, just start new bands! I'm sure they will be good if you want them to be... I mean, yah i do get that kids and older people just dont support the newer bands of guys who did bands a long time ago.. That sux.. but still, just focus on new bands please! I guess this is the pitfall of defining your band when u are young and think u will never change.. But you gotta deal with it... Oh and for the record, I am 42, and dont drink/drug/smoke etc since 1992 (before that yikes!) and been vegan for 26 years. Just adding this so I don't get written of as some young idealistic kid, who in all honesty should be getting the spotlight with his new band.. Ha! Juss kiddin! Sort of...
Actually after re-listening to that recording... I was too nice..
ReplyDeletePlease just go away from HC/Punk and never return, "bro" (a bro, cause that is what the bandmember speaking in the vid sounds like.) I know you have nothing else going for you, but maybe u guys can take up model trains?
"Nobody questions me! I am in a marginally relevant band from the mid 90's!" Guess what! you said a very loaded and ignorant statement. Expect somebody to call it out. That is what happens in Punk. Handle it like an adult. If this incident happened in 1995 you woulda been out of business. Beiben woulda been sooo bummed. Even tho that guy has his own skeletons for sure.
Yuck.
Also, you slept on my couch. Twice. I did a show for you. You guys were nice.. The voice in the recording sounds like a totally different person that what i remember... Sad to hear...
ReplyDeleteAhhhh ok. No idea what your ranting about. And congrats how awesome you are and turned out to be. Don't worry we are headed back into oblivion after the weekend and you can rest easy once again.
ReplyDeleteAlso we all have other bands (Left For Dead, Haymaker, Longest War, Pick Your Side etc etc), we just wanted to come back to make you angry cuz we are "bros" now. Looks like it worked. Better get that couch cleaned.
ReplyDeleteHA! Okaaay dude.. Looks like your Google Alerts are working! Always gotta keep up with seeing if anybody actually remembers you!
ReplyDeleteThe link above about your guitarist is the source of my "rant". Didn't really care that much about the non-edge bullshit... just found it sorta embarrassing for you...
BUT
punching a person (esp when there is enough violence against trans people in the world) just because they call you out on the most loaded subject EVER these days, and for sounding like an uninformed bigot, is PLENTY to "RANT" about. From what i knew about you guys way back, woulda expected you to act slightly above Floorpunch in the areas of race, homophobia and punching people because they make you feel like a dumdum for saying stupid shit. BUT ohhhh well..
You could have just been humble and been like "um yeah that got of hand and we regret it, But nah, you just gonna try to clown anybody who calls you out, like nothing happened. OWN up to the fact that that that was some SERIOUS bullshit.
Not angry cuz you came back, I have lived off music and art the past 20 years, but I have zero to do with hardcore since like 1995 (other then still listening to it), so you can have it.. Just telling you that your actions MAJORLY suck. Admit it, that shit was WACK. Also fair to mention that some 40-somethings embarrassingly playing songs that they wrote 20+ years ago and that were made fun of at the time by most other bands at the time... simply because a few more people remember your early crap (never heard of the other bands you list, but ya that is prob cuz i got out of hardcore when most non-stunted adults did)
Well yup.. not much more one can to add to that...
actually I was led here from a post on facebook. nothing to do with Google alerts. If you want to e mail me and discuss your accusations and assumptions about me and any member of the band, feel free. Rather than you spouting off about shit you think you have all figured out online. You don't know anything about me or what I am or how I live my life or my diet, you have just assumed. I know it's really hard to believe but it's not as cut and dry as you make it. paulyspasta@gmail.com .
ReplyDeleteI apologize to the blog owner for the drama, my original post was sincere and your blog is rad. <3
Chris, you do have a point, and I am sorry to the owner of this blog, that I went off so hard, on a blog of all places. I do think that because the incident happened in a public place, and it was recorded, that my feelings were valid to stay in public. I think private emails are like sweeping something very serious under the rug. Keeping it all on the DL just doesn't happen when public things like this make news. Being recorded is sorta ironic, being that the whole thing started out of the Black Lives Matter comment. Maybe you feel you have a explanation about what went down and you are totally entitled to speak your side, but you are majorly avoiding that for some reason.
ReplyDeleteI know I came across super pissed...My reason for intense intense anger is simply from what I heard out of the band's mouth, which was shocking to say the least. And then the aftermath of reports of the incident. There is seriously no place for that kinda violence, in society in general, let alone the HC/Punk world. It just REALLY made me mad that it came from a band I thought woulda been way above it. I don't feel the need to talk about that in private with you, as the recording speaks for itself. Even if the punch never happened, the recording is a huge bummer in my and a lot of other people's eyes. I know that you personally didn't say/do the bullshit, but if I was in your position, I would been horrified, then all over you guitarist's ass, then walked off stage and never looked back.
I honestly don't really care THAT much about the sxe thing that so many reunion bands do these days. I just find it really odd for my above reasons.. But i suppose i used it as fuel for the anger about the other bullshit.
But ya, this shit is really tough to swallow in 2015. I have so little to do with HC, it is a shame that this is what brought me here, while perusing some cool articles about bands i used to listen to.
One thing to add, I came out of the late 80's NYHC world, and this whole scenario woulda seemed INSANE if it happened even then. Violence obviously DID happen, but never in my memory between a male band member and a woman or transwoman, and esp over somebody calling them out from the crowd. I am thinking maybe the Mentors or GG got away with that? But Chokehold??? The amount of time between the initial comment and the punch was soooo quick!! Dude needs serious anger management skills. Also i just read your band and label's totally dismissive responses. LAME. Learning to say you are sorry and that you made a horrible mistake would actually be commendable. But your defensive egos are totally in the way of that. Stating that you guys are totally against homophobia and violence and racism, and yet, losing your cool in 30 seconds, and punching somebody over a criticism, is BANANAS!
DeleteIt seems you guys are at a crossroads, did you get enough damage that you are finished? Or in 2015, is the HC scene just into entertainment, and you can cash in a bit more?
One thing to add, I came out of the late 80's NYHC world, and this whole scenario woulda seemed INSANE if it happened even then. Violence obviously DID happen, but never in my memory between a male band member and a woman or transwoman, and esp over somebody calling them out from the crowd. I am thinking maybe the Mentors or GG got away with that? But Chokehold??? The amount of time between the initial comment and the punch was soooo quick!! Dude needs serious anger management skills. Also i just read your band and label's totally dismissive responses. LAME. Learning to say you are sorry and that you made a horrible mistake would actually be commendable. But your defensive egos are totally in the way of that. Stating that you guys are totally against homophobia and violence and racism, and yet, losing your cool in 30 seconds, and punching somebody over a criticism, is BANANAS!
ReplyDeleteIt seems you guys are at a crossroads, did you get enough damage that you are finished? Or in 2015, is the HC scene just into entertainment, and you can cash in a bit more?
to the blog owner, sorry to bring this up, the "Mongoloid retard" comment in your post is sorta fucked.. I know that has become vernacular over the years to describe people who are knuckleheads. But as somebody who has a family member with Downs Syndrome, that term really gets under my skin.
ReplyDeleteI get where you are coming from, but you are a little late to the party and the fallout from this whole thing. Jeff apologized for his actions and even had a sit down in Arizona with a whole table full of activists and they all hashed things out. You are taking a recording and condemning. You have no insight. this person was being violent all night and yelling at all the bands and calling them names and punching people in the pit the entire evening. Jeff did have a point and was going to make a point. This person was rude and shitty all night and paid for it. You can have your opinion on violence all you want, but the punch happened. No one knew anything about the person being a male that identified as a female. NOT ONE PERSON. so take that out of the equation. He punched the person. should he have? in my opinion no. but he did. There has been many arguments apologies etc. so have your opinion and that's all good. I am who I am and the songs I screamed during this reunion are songs I 10000% still believe in and support in my life to this day. I won't be commenting any further because I don't need to defend this any longer. I love hardcore and have for 25 years and still do. It's my life, I live and breathe it. so fuck you. I'm not trying to sweep anything under the rug or keep it private, I have been all over the place disucssiing this for over 9 weeks. But since you checked out of the "scene" you would have no idea. You have walked in and declared judgement. and who can blame you
ReplyDeleteand we are done. we were onlly here for a couple of shows. Don't worry we didn't get rich and we are not RE-DOing the band. Just an excuse to hang out with friends once again. I can only imagine all those evil thoughts going through your head of how rich we were getting off playing shitty 90's hardcore. The money to be made .. oh my. After this weekend we are gone again. so rest easy my friend. Your universe will be at peace once more.
ReplyDeleteYou came out of the late 1980s NYHC scene and that would have seemed crazy? Well Im from the same place and time. I don't know what fucking shows you were hanging out at haha. Maybe you were watching pop punk shows and your memory is a little off or you're just some full of shit loser that has nothing better to do then hangout run your mouth all over the internet from your mom's basement. Also if your gonna talk all kinds of shit and make accusations about people thart you dont even really know at least put your fucking name to it. All the people and bands I can think of coming out of NYHC from that time period would have no problem saying what they have to say and backing it up with their identity. Get a life seriously
ReplyDeleteLook dude, we are both commenting here, so don't pull the Mom's Basement card on me, you're just as guilty. We are on a blog together!...
DeleteI went to CBs matinees, then to ABC.. from 88-onward and duh, i totally admitted above it was plenty violent at times, and PLENTY of homophobic words thrown around... But i meant that even in that scene, can you tell me a band that punched out a woman, or man for that matter for (verbally) challenging them? Not saying that somewhere in NYC that it NEVER happened, just saying even in that world, that that person woulda gotten shit about it from a fair amount of people. SO my point was how can a band that seriously came across as SUPER lefty pull this sorta shit move in 2015? In Your Face got so much shit and was BANNED by Mike BS because of a very poor taste "joke" song (Faggot Stomp). And they APOLOGIZED profusely for it their whole career. Teens say and do dumb and fucked up shit. They hopefully grow up and own it. This is 2015. Everybody involved is in their 40s. Totally Absurd.
First, thanks for actually referencing what i am pissed about. BUT... Oh my god... I was just saying, that despite all you have been thru since your guitarist FUCKED UP hard, having to explain away your bros's actions, and how much that person sucked and deserved it, you just need to STOP being so snarky and offended that me and a lotta other people are MAJORLY WTF about this whole thing... I don't care if the person was annoying or drunk or acting out, did he hit your guitarist? The escalation was so fucking fast... So Dumb. And it's not a point to make of me being not in the "the scene" anymore. This is planet Earth, but ya, I am more bummed than normal, as somebody who has hung out with you and worked with your band. That shit majorly sucked and I was shocked to hear about it. Everybody I talked to about it since learning about it was shocked and bummed as well. People that you knew, and that you played with. One person I know you played with plenty, had a great point, "This actually blows the One Life Crew thing away" SO just say "YES, my guitarist is FUCKED UP." There is no other way around it. Don't tell me "Fuck You" and take shots at me for understandably being blown away by and pissed about this! If you heard the same thing about another band, I am sure you'd be like "WHAT??? That is fucked!!" Enough self preservation. I woulda given you a ton of kudos if you just admitted it was fucked, and that you are distancing yourself from the person. But oh well. I know you prob won't respond, but in all due respect, PLEASE try to understand how this was very upsetting for people who supported your band to hear about. And then to have be soooo uncomfortably evasive and snarky and mean towards people going WTF. It's pretty expected backlash wouldn't you say?
ReplyDelete& of course I know you didn't make THAT much money.... Just helps grease that faded ego.
First off I'm not justifying any type of violence or whatever I just want to know who you are thats all. Stop clicking the anonymous button.
DeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
DeleteI just find it extremely amusing that everyone on this thread running their mouth, throwing around insults, labeling people, putting words in their mouths or just straight up talking shit are all posting anonymously but that's today world for you. If you don't have to look someone in the eyes or worry about crossing paths it's easy to be a complete cock. What I also find hilarious is the amount of pronouns being thrown around. If you want to have a serious discussion and engage someone then come out of hiding and stop being a chicken shit like pretty much everyone else on this thread. There's 7 different options to choose from. You skipped all the way down to the last one and clicked anonymous.
ReplyDeleteP.s.
Get of your fucking high horse!
Not one single person in Chokehold is a racist, a sexist, prejudice or homophobic or transphobic etc. Does someone have an anger problem and made a really, really bad judgement call in my heat of the moment I'd say definitely YES. I think that's obvious. People seem to forget we are all human and humans make mistakes but according to you in today's world everyone's perfect. It's 1 and done. 1 strike youré out. No chance for redemption, no chance to change your ways, no apology is good enough, no chance to fix your fuck ups. Just a whole bunch of shitheads ready to pounce and destroy someone because they have nothing better to do. I think we can all agree chokehold and their members dont have a history of hitting women in the crowd or anyone else in the crowd for that matter. This isn't some reoccurring thing. There's no pattern of behavior here. So fucking get off of it already.
Just incase you're wondering... I happen to know all of this because they slept on my couch in the early 9O's. We've hungout a couple times. I also set up some shows and I have a friend of a friend of a friend of another friend that thinks so too.
Goodnight 😘
I just find it extremely amusing that everyone on this thread running their mouth, throwing around insults, labeling people, putting words in their mouths or just straight up talking shit are all posting anonymously but that's today world for you. If you don't have to look someone in the eyes or worry about crossing paths it's easy to be a complete cock. What I also find hilarious is the amount of pronouns being thrown around. If you want to have a serious discussion and engage someone then come out of hiding and stop being a chicken shit like pretty much everyone else on this thread. There's 7 different options to choose from. You skipped all the way down to the last one and clicked anonymous.
ReplyDeleteP.s.
Get of your fucking high horse!
Not one single person in Chokehold is a racist, a sexist, prejudice or homophobic or transphobic etc. Does someone have an anger problem and made a really, really bad judgement call in my heat of the moment I'd say definitely YES. I think that's obvious. People seem to forget we are all human and humans make mistakes but according to you in today's world everyone's perfect. It's 1 and done. 1 strike youré out. No chance for redemption, no chance to change your ways, no apology is good enough, no chance to fix your fuck ups. Just a whole bunch of shitheads ready to pounce and destroy someone because they have nothing better to do. I think we can all agree chokehold and their members dont have a history of hitting women in the crowd or anyone else in the crowd for that matter. This isn't some reoccurring thing. There's no pattern of behavior here. So fucking get off of it already.
Just incase you're wondering... I happen to know all of this because they slept on my couch in the early 9O's. We've hungout a couple times. I also set up some shows and I have a friend of a friend of a friend of another friend that thinks so too.
Goodnight 😘
Timothy, Firstly to address the above issue with my anon choice, I simply don't care to be a real person, because it just doesn't matter that much who I am. I am just somebody who at one point really thought this band was on the right track. And who is currently super bummed at this recent mega-ugly development. I am NOT a troll and hating on them or mud slinging, just voicing my MAJOR disappointment and disgust. I suppose that is what makes me a coward to you... But I am just not into putting my name on here, and being googled and then have everybody go, "oooooh shit that dude from "that band" is TOTALLY beefing with Chokehold!". It happened to me once before and Pitchfork, then other media outlets jumped all over it. So ya, I am wary of that. Consider me an anon HC kid who is simply VERY bummed.
ReplyDeleteI generally really do believe you and Chris, that these guys try to mean well, and are against all those things. It's hard to not be against those things if you are sane person. BUT sometimes people say rash stuff that comes across backwards thinking to others, ie: All Lives Matter. It's sorta like, OK, no shit, all lives matter.. but It is widely believed to be very distracting from the actual issue of Black Lives being wasted by cops. THAT is the issue. It is obviously a huge tragedy that those three white people got killed by cops. Nobody is disputing that... BUT by tacking on "well white people have it ruff too", it just seems very insensitive to a lotta black folks.
But seriously, I am all for forgiveness, but unfortunately Chris came on here in super defensive self-preservation mode and couldn't just admit that the situation was a huge and problematic one. I even said I liked these guys (as people) back in the day and that it just didn't sound like the guys i remember. It was just VERY surprising news to me, and VERY upsetting. Not going out of my way to fling mud, because the guitarist clearly dumped that bucket of shit on the bands legacy. I am just voicing my disgust, disappointment and sadness about this. Why is that hard to understand? If some random white power dude showed up a the show and did the same thing, everybody woulda killed him. But since the Guitarist is one of "us" then "how dare anybody be surprised and upset about his actions!". Punk is always going to be about standing up for things we believe in and voicing opinions. And being beat down for it is something straight out of the OLC playbook.
cont. below
But, we are agreeing on the one basic issue I am upset at, that the dude DEFINITELY has crazy anger issues and an extremely short fuse, and prob should not have access to a mic (just kidding, sorta?). I doubt that he is a straight up racist person, maybe kinda Libertarian? Ha I dunno the guy... A lot of left-ish white people HATE being considered racist (he admitted he certainly did in an interview), BUT sometimes we don't understand all the issues that blacks and minorities feel, but then we have strong opinions about them, and want to seem down and show solidarity with them, by saying, "you know, us whites have suffered too". I am thinking that was what the dude was getting at.. But there is an unconscious patronizing racism that the left can fall prey too.. he should left the Black Lives Matter out, and just said this song is about police and how they are fucked, yadda yadda and not brought race into it. I have a dark-skinned GF and we have been together and seen that difference first hand in how we are treated. Like I get all smiles, then if she is without me, it's cold, or suspiciousness.. then when we are together, I get this vibe from people that im a race traitor... It really is eye-opening.
ReplyDeleteAnd maaaybe that other person who got slugged WAS out of hand at the show? I dunno.. It's just that the recording doesn't sound that way, just sounds to me like a sassy punk kid. Which is what punk is known for. Like she says "OK" like she is down, and guitarist goes "OK WHAT??" That seemed to be an unneeded escalation.Not a reason to fight. If the kid "had it coming to her" then the audience should have intervened to get her to chill and knock it off.. As NON-VIOLENTLY as possible. It's ironic as i said above because the recording really comes across like a cop wearing a body camera. Like well we can hear the whole thing play out, and it doesn't look good. Dude went all Axl Rose.
cont.
I am sorry if it seems like im on a high horse. Not trying to be... I am not in a HC band, but one time during a festival in Europe, a drunk dude got on stage with a lit cigarette and grabbed my female bandmate, and got in her face to "dance" and I reached out and jabbed him hard in the spine with my drumstick which snapped him out of his drunken haze, just as the security grabbed the dude. I was MAD. This dude had his hands on my bandmate's hips and ass. NOT COOL. But I lost my cool. I know that can happen when you are in the moment on stage and somebody gets out of line. But if this person at the chokehold show was gonna beat on the guitarist, then, assuming she was bigger or the guitarist was scared for his safety... I could say maybe i understand defending himself. But do to the overwhelmingly unsafe-to-transpeople world we live in, it really left an ugly taste in my mouth... and I was waaaay more angry, than if it was another male (which still woulda be a bummer). And i know that it was said that maybe he didn't see her as a woman. But that doesnt matter. Violence is a last resort. I remember Burn playing Airport Music Hall in Allentown and WP skins straight up saying to Chaka " You better get on the next banana boat back to Africa you N#&%R. And Gavin, and Chaka just playing thru it. Ya they were outnumbered, I at the time I was like, whoa, even Gavin is scared...but I asked him about it later and he just said they just knew if shit went down the cool kids woulda jumped in and maybe they woulda won, or maybe they all woulda lost, Pottstown style. But they just thought, play through it. finish the set. Don't throw the first punch. Be better than them. That meant a ton to me.
ReplyDeleteI don't wanna fight with all of Chokehold's fans. I just wanted to get my feelings of disappointment and sadness out there. I wanted Chris to understand that instead of defending his guitarist, that he could have been much more humble and understanding of peoples disappointment and anger, considering the situation's severity.
And to Chris, I think it's rad your guitarist was able to sit with people in AZ and talk it out. maybe it was damage control... but I hope everybody grew from that experience. But it's just hard to forget and brush aside violence of this sort, especially from a band and scene that seemed so against all that... I know i came into this late, and dredged up the bad vibes your band is dealing with... But like I said, I was really bummed and just expressing that. I think that is more than fair.
I wish everybody the best in the future. I would really hope that you guys can see where my disappointment comes from, and not just come back try to make fun of me like I am a weird basement dwelling blog troll. I was just moved to get this off my chest. It really hit home.
I came back like a crack head. anonymous person, you are late to the party and I have said sorry just about every single place that it can be said. I apologized for the violence and I apologized for the place it happened in, Jeff gave a huge speech in Arizona. I get why your mad and upset. I really do. You just stoked the fires again and I got pissed. Especially after spending 9 weeks talking about this. It was fucked up. No argument. All these "friends" that are let down by me or whatever, I have not heard from any of them. This is why I gave you my e mail address. I'm not looking to publicize any beef, but if you know me and we are friends, I would hope you would contact me and tell me your concerns and I could explain myself. That is why I am posting as me and giving you my e mail. I'm not into drama, I'm 43 and if someone has a problem they should come to me and discuss it. Honestly you can e mail me because I just don't have the patience for this blog bullshit. Love to everyone. I'm going to Baltimore to embarrass myself on stage doing what I love. Peace.
ReplyDeleteChris, thanks for FINALLY getting where I was coming from. Getting pissed is understandable, but that attitude is sorta the root of it all I'd say...I woulda dropped it if i got ur most recent comment FIRST. I know I would HATE to be in your shoes, with something you really care about, and worked for, taking a shitty turn and getting so much shit lately. Honestly I woulda walked away in disgust, that's me tho... I know thats easier said than done tho because he is an old friend and you wanna try to dig ur band out of it... .I know that it sux being the vocalist and being the defacto voice of the band. It sux that bands are often guilty by association of one member's actions. But I unfortunately think this shit is gonna haunt the legacy of your band, and really all you can do and say is be humble about it when it comes up and understanding that people are gonna be seriously WTF.
ReplyDeleteThe few people i mentioned are all scene/band people from the past, and not people that probably kept up with you. So that's why you maybe haven't heard from them. Or maybe they just don't know what to say?